Australian Money Forum

[wulfgar]

This Iraq debacle has been compared with Vietnam. In most major respects it is different, but the common factor is the Empire wannabee's America.
So in as much as the course of events are predicated by Vietnam. They are really predicated by America's stale historical strategy.
In South Vietnam America forstered regime change by having the Vietnamese army overthrow and kill its former leaders in 1963. The funny bit is the former regime were American allies!!! But alas, the secret to being American is the secret to being miserable. This nation is never happy with any state of reality. America's real war, is and has always been "the war on reality". The Americans are idealists, they believe their ideas are reality or form reality. They periodically spit into wind and have it invariabley come back in their face. They mistake the stench in their heads, for the sweet smell of the Cosmos.
In the case of Vietnam the newly installed regime "invited" America in. In case of Iraq, America utterly failed to bring down the former regime from a dsitance. They had to invade first and then set up the puppet regime to retrospectvely "invite" them in. From this can be seen the greatest danger of this strategy. Arab society dislikes outsiders of any variety. Let alone a heard of cultural morons like the Americans. The Americans have not one ounce sympathy amongst the Arabs. A recent poll showed 70% of Iraqis approved of killing Americans.
The strategic stakes are light years from Vietnam. Vietnam had little of value other than its culture. While there can be no more sensitive place on Earth than the strategic oil supplies of the Persian Gulf. Compared to this place in the World's eyes, America is a piece of chaff blown in the wind. To the World, America is unimportant. Where as Iraq is all important. This guarantee's that in the course of time, other World power blocs will arrive to challenge America for the oil.
But the American aspect of "Vietnamisation" is shortly to affect us all. America is unique in modern times of a nation that cannot accept responsiblity for its mistakes. If things don't go according to plan after America invaded the place. Every other entity will be blamed for it's failure. From the Iraqis, to the Syrians and Iranians and ultimately even the Europeans and Russians and then the Chinese. The message from America is the rest of the World is bad. (I might add, it is surely more cost efficient to remove America from existence!)
Let's take the main elements of Bush's "Surge" speech.

Bush makes it clear that success in Iraq does not depend on the surge. Rather, "Succeeding in Iraq . . . begins with addressing Iran and Syria."


YES IT IS ON! BUSH IS CLEARLY PLANNING TO STRIKE SYRIA AND IRAN!
Okay, the world market should be interesting this year! Forget about cheaper oil or stalling gold! Yes, this is a buy signal!
And to those who would say that it cannot happen, because America will be shooting itself in the foot. Forget that America is past master of shooting itself in the foot! In fact if it can shoot itself in the foot, then it will do so by all means. America is quite simply a Psychopath. It cannot accept reality over its Ego!
America will extend its invasion debacle to neighboring nations, because it has always done so in the past. Invading Sth. Vietnam soon led to assualts on Cambodia, Laos and Nth Vietnam.
When America has the choice, it will escalate! It's mission is to test reality. Why?, because is a hollow nation. It has no rationale. In this we have the secret of its hollow victory. It looks in the mirror and doesn't like what is seen, therefore it will smash the mirror always.
The downfall of the American plan is their enemies are capable of "surging" even more.
The secret of America is its WMD's. "Weapons of Mass Dumbness".
In the process of fighting its idiotic wars of recent history. The Europeans are taking the world market and the world currency off the hands of America. The Americans will wake up in a few years and discover they are of little importance. They are chaff before the wind!
As for the "democratically" elected government of Iraq. Bushie's Bimbo has made that clear.

.........Maliki's government was living on "borrowed time".........

But then, so is America! Time and America don't mix!

[Miller]

...

I would say it was a bit harsh though it has a portion of sense.

Wulfgar, do you beleive that there are other ways to stop countries like Iran, Syria, North Korea from having nuclear weapon? If yes, what are the ways? Or you don't see a danger in spread of NW?

[wulfgar]

I find the criminal invasion, murder of 600,000 of Iraq inhabitents and the destruction of its culture even harsher than my words.
It is entirely appropriate that these small nations seek nuclear arms to defend themselves.
These people will seek revenge.
There only defence against nuclear war was the UN. It was declared "irrelevant" by the US. Now nuclear arms are the way to go. WW3 is just around the corner.

[Miller]

I find the criminal invasion, murder of 600,000 of Iraq inhabitents and the destruction of its culture even harsher than my words.
It is entirely appropriate that these small nations seek nuclear arms to defend themselves.
These people will seek revenge.
There only defence against nuclear war was the UN. It was declared "irrelevant" by the US. Now nuclear arms are the way to go. WW3 is just around the corner.

I am not defending murders. I just think it's not that simple.

UN is useless. Especially in resource distribution matters.

Back in 2003 I considered the US invasion as a peace and freedom bringing action regardless of existence of WMD. I thought and still think if the regime kills the people it must be overthrown. Yes, it would be paid by oil.

In 2005 I saw funerals of US soldiers in Boston. A woman I worked with lost here son. But I still had a hope it would bring more "good" than "bad" to Iraqis and the world.

Now I just feel very bad about it because I don't see the ways to stop it. If they simply leave Iraq it will result in even more deaths and the country will become a terrorists' base. Even if they give up the oil they got there I don't think UN or anyone else will want to get involved.

[wulfgar]

UN is useless. Especially in resource distribution matters.

Whatever the shortcomings of the UN, it was basically about preventing the world from sliding into nuclear war. That was a very valuable exercise.
The Terminator film summed it up best.

Anybody without sunblock 6 million plus, is going to have a very bad day!

To misquote the Greek Myth, "Better to be beggar in the world as it has been, than a King in a world devastated by Nuclear Weapons.

Now I just feel very bad about it because I don't see the ways to stop it. If they simply leave Iraq it will result in even more deaths and the country will become a terrorists' base. Even if they give up the oil they got there I don't think UN or anyone else will want to get involved.

Better that, than what will result if America stays. The Chinese and Russians will get invovled. And ultimately they are not pussies like American's. They will push the button first and ask questions later. Unlike American's they are swift and sllent and deadly! They don't up the stakes slowly, they go all the way.
The only way the UN will get involved is a complete surrender of American politic. The American's went against the UN's will, they will not bail America out. America broke their rules.

[wulfgar]

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/ ... 61328.html
Iran strike an option - National - theage.com.au

........The United States left open the possibility of a military strike against Iran today as Australia warned of the "nightmare scenario'' of Iran becoming emboldened by any coalition defeat in Iraq..........

Putting out fire with gasoline?

........Mr Cheney said Washington preferred to work with it allies to persuade Iran to give up its nuclear weapons...........

The dementia shows, Cheney stop drooling! Presently Iran has no nuclear weapons.

......"The next step is now being debated.''.........

.........We see a nation that has been fairly aggressive in the Middle East.......

........They have made some fairly inflammatory statements.........

......They appear to be pursuing the development of nuclear weapons......

Do the above statements refer to America or Iran?

.......The statements by Mr Howard and Mr Cheney followed British Prime Minister Tony Blair's plans to start sending British troops home from Iraq.........

Maybe the British can sniff what is in the wind. This is not what they signed up for!
Unlike the nation of Micro Brains, the British are actually intelligent.

......."I don't think there would be a country whose influence and potential clout would be more enhanced in that part of the world than Iran's would be if the coalition was defeated in Iraq,'' Mr Howard said...........

Australian Migit of the Milleniam, hops in for his bit.

Must dust off that old Gulf War board game from the 80's. Which foresaw that Saddam was the lesser of Evils.
The Micro Brain Trust believed the Iraqis would be like putty to manipulated. Nothing proved further from the reality. I wonder where they got that idea from?