Help: Australia is going into a $42b "debt", too whom?

Any discussions more or less related to Australian economy (or politics) are welcome here.

Help: Australia is going into a $42b "debt", too whom?

Postby aussierod on Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:47 pm

Hi all - Opposition Leader Malcolm Turnbull today said PM Rudd's "stimulus package" is "too much money, too much debt.."
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25009477-953,00.html

Does anyone know for sure whom we (Australia) are getting into "debt" with regarding comrade Rudd's $42 billion dollar stimulating dribble :?:

Last time I checked Section 51 of the Australian Constriction (that allows Australia to make our own Sovereign currency)
was still in place. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_51(xii)_of_the_Australian_Constitution

The "debt" won't be to China will it, because I have a problem with those even foreign to China that set that honey pot up.
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Re: Help: Australia is going into a $42b "debt", too whom?

Postby kvill on Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:22 pm

maybe it is to the international monetary fund :?:
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Re: Help: Australia is going into a $42b "debt", too whom?

Postby wulfgar on Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:48 pm

I'm no expert on what the present arrangement could be.

But to finance it's debt, the government issues treasuries or bonds. They have a fixed rate of interest. They are put on the open market, and the market bids for them. If the buyers are too sparse, then the buyer of last resort the RBA bids on them. By printing money from thin air if it has no other funds.
The Federal Government hasn't issued bonds for years now. However there is still about 60 billion worth of longer term from the Keating era.

This system entails more risk than the old era when exchange rates were controlled and the banks highly regulated.

The risk is it could have the opposite effect of that intended. Printing dollars. A private market terrified of deflation could pull other investments to buy perceived safety of Government Bonds. The RBA gets outbid and cannot print dollars.

This is what appears to have occurred with the US. The Fed is getting outbid for US treasuries and so cannot bring it printing press guns to bear. The quantity of USD on issue has stagnated around 900 billion. Nobody will net borrow from the Fed window. The risk is that the quantity of USD could start to contract. The Wall street banks who were the borrowers from the FED window, have keeled over and died.
The FED has created a trillion in currency swaps with other CB's, but this is on a repo basis. And is not permanent.

However full marks to Rudd, the last year has seen some very successful printing of the AUD. Xmas 2007 the tota currency in circulation was 44 billion AUD. Xmas 2008 saw 52 billion! This is an increase of 18% I think. This is because the State governments and banks have been borrowing. However if the banks become shy of borrowing. Then the government will have to go the treasury bond route.

Although popular at the moment, there is a risk that even treasuries could become illiquid at a future date, with a high spread on bid and offer. The Deflation Godzilla is roaring in the distance!

There is a definite possibility that gold could become the world monetary reserve. Gold for the next few years, is the best bet in town.

Hopefully there's a bright spark out there, that can add to Wulfie's feeble effort. I was a year 11 dropout.
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Re: Help: Australia is going into a $42b "debt", too whom?

Postby aussierod on Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:13 pm

Crikey, the 42 billion has turned into 200 billion in debt, to China :shock:

The program, authorised by Treasurer Wayne Swan, will leave Australia with a debt bill approaching $200 billion.
http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0 ... 62,00.html


Gee, thanks Wayne Swan. (I'm sending back the $900 bribe he sent me.)

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill. The element that makes the bond good, makes the bill good, also. The difference between the bond and the bill is the bond lets money brokers collect twice the amount of the bond and an additional 20%, whereas the currency pays nobody but those who contribute directly in some useful way. It is absurd to say that our country can issue $30 million in bonds and not $30 million in currency. Both are promises to pay, but one promise fattens the usurers and the other helps the people."

-Thomas Edison, The New York Times, December 6, 1921
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Re: Help: Australia is going into a $42b "debt", too whom?

Postby wulfgar on Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:06 pm

There seems to conditions imposed in international relations. In relation to how much currency you can print. Australian government bonds are highly regarded and seem to be a hot item on the market. The Chinese could simply regard Australia as a better choice than the US or Europe. Australia has ultimately high value to it's capital ratio.
I also say, for any person with a good amount of cash in the banks.....forget the banks. Pull the money out and buy these bond issues. Government bonds have a heap of pluses compared to bank deposits. Don't wait.....run. Compared the lucrative nature of sovereign bonds in a declining interest rate environment. The banks are a waste of space. Get on the phone, before next weeks rate cut.
Actually far more dangerous than a nation buying our bonds, is them buying the farm. If was a choice between them, I'd let the Chinese buy all the bonds they wanted. Selling the farm, has far greater risk.
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Re: Help: Australia is going into a $42b "debt", too whom?

Postby aussierod on Tue May 05, 2009 7:09 pm

Australian government bonds are highly regarded and seem to be a hot item on the market.


I'm with Edison on the topic of bonds..

"If the Nation can issue a dollar bond it can issue a dollar bill.
The element that makes the bond good makes the bill good also. The
difference between the bond and the bill is that the bond lets the
money broker collect twice the amount of the bond and an additional 20%.
Whereas the currency, the honest sort provided by the Constitution pays
nobody but those who contribute in some useful way. It is absurd to say
our Country can issue bonds and cannot issue currency. Both are promises
to pay, but one fattens the usurer and the other helps the People."
Thomas A. Edison
http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote/tho ... quote_6991
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Re: Help: Australia is going into a $42b "debt", too whom?

Postby wulfgar on Tue May 05, 2009 7:34 pm

The better money goes for bonds over banks. Certainly very good stuff with declining interest rates. And safer, you deal directly with the RBA. Not with the at risk retail banks. Definitely a good place to park money while you have no other plans.
From mid year however, I'd start looking more and more at gold. At some point next year, gold will bust 1000USD and probably head close to 1600USD.

The good money in bonds is the institutional buyers who take first pick. You the ordinary retail buyer has to acquire them second hand.

The Federal Government is really trying acquire hard foreign currency with the bonds. Getting AUD for them from Australian buyers, doesn't serve their purpose. After all, they can print all the AUD they want. This problem arises with the local Big 4 buying the issues. It appears they'll take half the 50 billion subscription been put out in the first 6 months.
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